Cameron to support creation of Euro-State without democratic consent.
Posted: August 17th, 2011 | Author: The Peoples Pledge Team | Filed under: The People's Pledge Blog, Uncategorized | Tags: David Cameron, Democracy Movement, Douglas Carswell, Eurozone, Marc Glendening | 29 Comments »
The British government in March gained the initial approval of Parliament to give at a later date the EU new powers over economic decision-making through a redefining of Article 136 of the Lisbon treaty. As was confirmed yesterday (August 16) at the Sarkozy-Merkel mini summit, Brussels intends establishing central economic governance under the leadership of the EU president Herman van Rompuy. Ostensibly, this will only apply to the Eurozone countries.
As People’s Pledge advisory council member Douglas Carswell MP, among others, has warned, giving the green light for the creation of such a powerful centralised authority carries huge risks for Britain, together with other non-euro countries Denmark and Sweden. A unified Eurozone voting bloc will be able to force through whatever measures it wants to, aided by the European Court of Justice which has the final say in any dispute regarding interpretations of the treaty.
Remember, back in May 2010 it was decided by the eurozone majority that Britain and the other non-euro countries must contribute to the bailouts under Article 122 of the treaty. Our government believed in its naivety that this article was only about helping countries that were experiencing ‘natural disasters’. Whatever opt-outs David Cameron believes he has secured will ultimately mean nothing so long as the EU enjoys legal supremacy over us. Once he has given his consent to a new article 136, the gates of the Eurozone Gothic castle will clamp shut for all EU member states.
There is also a moral dilemma relating to this issue, but not one that concerns the current UK government, sadly: Should Britain really be enabling the EU to further extend its undemocratic control over the lives of German, Greek, Irish, French, Italian and other eurozone peoples when they will have no chance to give or withhold their democratic consent to what is being planned for them? Remember, not one European electorate voted explicitly for the single currency project in a referendum. Opinion polls showed at the time the euro came into existence that a clear majority of the German people wanted to keep their national currency.
The legal instrument through which the new powers will be transferred from the member countries to the EU is Article 136 of the Lisbon treaty. When the time comes, the political heads of all the member countries, including David Cameron, will vote to change the wording of this article. As opponents of Lisbon have always warned, the treaty contains within it the means for the political elite to add new policy making controls to the EU portfolio without having to go through the lengthy and often politically messy process of ratifying new treaties through national parliaments or, heaven forbid, referendums. This they are now in the process of doing. The Irish government is particularly keen to restrict the right of its voters to have a say. This will no doubt be tested in the courts by citizens demanding a referendum on what will clearly be an issue of constitutional significance.
It may still be that some of the measures the French and German governments want to force through will also require a new short treaty. For example, Angela Merkel has the problem to contend with of legal challenges before the German supreme court that claim that the bail-outs of Greece, Portugal and Ireland are unconstitutional as they violate Article 125 of the treaty which forbids paying off the debts of other eurozone countries. While nothing has been decided yet, it might be that in order to overcome the objections of many German citizens, together with some politicians, Merkel will require an explicit re-writing of the treaty.
Even if this proves to be the case, our government has stated it will do whatever is required to facilitate a politically unified eurozone. Cameron will attempt to whip through parliament, enthusiastically supported by the Lib Dems, naturally, any new treaty in addition to the beefed up Article 136. It will be interesting to see how Ed Miliband plays all this. If he’s smart, Labour will oppose this Cameroonian chicanery and make common cause with the numerous Tory MPs who can be expected to defy their leadership on this. If this were to happen, it is not inconceivable that the government could be defeated and the Labour leader would be able to position himself as a champion of the rights of the British and other European peoples against the furtive, secretive political class. If he doesn’t, he will confirm that he is just another dreary and untrustworthy political insider.
The good thing about all of this is that at least the fog is now clearing from the battlefield and a growing number of people appreciate what is at stake and that the stark reality is that Britain now needs to decide whether it is governed principally from Brussels or by those who are accountable to us through the ballot box, as in Switzerland and Norway. It’s that simple. And this is where the People’s Pledge comes in.
Marc Glendening, director of the Democracy Movement
To find out more about the Democracy Movement click here
This is truly disturbing news. We MUST get out of Europe and soon.
Why am I banging my head on the computer desk? Nothing Wavy Davy does surprises me any more.
I can’t believe I actually voted for him. Even if he were to offer an In/Out referendum, I would have to make sure I was holding my nose pretty tight before voting again for him.
Happily, it’s looking increasingly unlikely it will come to that. Whatever he may genuinely have thought of the EU when he announced that his cast-iron guarantee had gone rusty, he’s pretty clearly all in favour now.
Don`t know how many signatures you have acquired – but there should be nearly 70,000,000. I`ve signed. Where are the rest of them. Dozey gits must want to be slaves.
If you go to http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ this will provide an opportunity for People’s Pledge to put forward an epetition, to object to this Article 136 attempt to force the UK taxpayers to bail out the euro.
Provided at least 100,000 signatures are received for the epetition it MUST be debated in Parliament and the Government MUST respond to the contents of the epetition. Can someone at People’s Pledge do something about this?
To me at age 74 it is becoming increasingly evident that the only way to fight this is with a concertive programme of passive civil disobediance. I feel enough talking has taken place and Came5ron and in fact the vast majority could’nt care less what the people want or believe but are quite happy to ride roughshod over any other opinion but their own.We must seriously consider witholding taxes especially any that include any sort of payment to the EU. and we must take to the streetrs in our thousands.
Let us hope that the ‘fog [which is] now clearing’, is pre-battle mist, and not post-battle smoke.
A bit cryptic I s’pose, but what I mean is, Does it create an opportunity, or expose a deception?
David Cameron is a dishonest man who only seeks to appease the people who are not paying and does so by spending our money on foreign enterprises and by slating the history of our country. He and many other MPs who vote so treacherously in favour of giving us away to foreign powers know the views of the electorate but don’t even bother any more to even appear to be democratic.
What you say in your final paragraph: “…Britain now needs to decide whether it is governed principally from Brussels or by those who are accountable to us through the ballot box…” does not give me a feeling of power or control. Westminster no longer sees any need to even pretend to be accountable to the electorate and given that every party is just like every other party, they are not even really accountable to us for policy at the ballot box or anywhere else. Dictatorships have “democartic” elections with only one party standing for election. UKIP is different I suppose but I can’t imagine them ever being elected and I expect that the three main parties in this country feel secure in that thought too.
And in case anyone should think that David Cameron is honest, here is an article about his views on Europe:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6502361/EU-Lisbon-Treaty-David-Cameron-promises-vote-on-future-EU-changes.html
And what has happened to the e-petition on the Government website? Only 18,996 have signed so far. Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burned!
“Provided at least 100,000 signatures are received for the epetition it MUST be debated in Parliament and the Government MUST respond to the contents of the epetition. Can someone at People’s Pledge do something about this?”
This is simply not true!!!! You can get 50 million signatures and it will only be “Considered for debate” by a committee! And should they condescend to bow to the will of the people it will ONLY be debated in Parliament, no guarantee of new legislation or referendum…. the entire epetition is a complete and utter con! It meant to make you feel warm and fuzzy ‘cos they care about your opinions!
Len
I have been saying for ages that we have to peacefully demonstrate on the streets, like we did with Iraq. But hopefully this time more people will be bothered to do it.
Kind regards
Tim
The arch criminal and treasonous Cameron cannot be trusted to do anything to curb the EU. Him and his kind are ruining this once fair country. Somebody please dispatch him from the dispatch box!
This is scary and the worst part is most people can’t even be bothered to educate themselves about their own future. This could happen. Or even worse, Labour (the wolf) could get back in disguised as granny. Soon maps of Europe will no longer say France, Britain, Germany, just EU with a big red boundary around the lot.
Andrew. I never voted for him, yet we are stuck with him.One thing though is now crystal clear,he has to be now, one of the most mistrusted Prime Ministers, of all time. His promises, are just lies, dressed up tio make you think he is for the british people,which he patently is not, and, rather than give us that hard sought after referendum, he would rather see us under German rule, which, after all, was the aim of the European Union, when it was first fostered by Admiral Speer, and Adolf Hitler. Sadly, we do not have a plitician that we can trust any more.
Well said Gillian, I think Lens got the right idea, civil disobedience, and get ourselves all locked up, should be better treated perhaps,trouble is, with the public, they follow their old polltical leanings,and dare not look at what else there is, content to leave their MPs to wallow in luxurty, thinking that they are working for them. Would be usefull perhaps if we knew how many more have joined peoplespledge, and how many are signing on Nikki Sinclaire’s petition, asking for a referendum, and how much attention Call me Dave is giving them.
Actually, there are three similarly worded epetitions on the Government web site which, between them, now total well over 25,000 signatures – which is clearly moving steadily up towards the top of the list.
If People’s Pledge can ask supporters to just sign http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/356, this will help to ensure that this one alone will shortly exceed 20,000 signatures – which puts it currently 7th on the entire list. It is perfectly possible that we could get it up to second or third place if we really try.
Once this epetition has been pushed up towards the top of the list – hopefully with in excess of 100,000 e-signatures – this could result in the matter being brought to the floor of the House for a full debate by MPs and a required response from Government. Following this success, People’s Pledge should next organise a further epetition, opposing UK funding of any EU bailout. Mind you, is anyone from People’s Pledge actually reading and/or taking notice of these comments on this web site?
In response to Dave above, the other Dave (Cameron) stated quite clearly in the debate last week in the Commons that any epetition which gained at least 100,000 esignatures would definitely be debated in the House and that the government would respond to the debate.
It is possible that David Cameron was being economical with the actuality.
If that is the case, why not gather 100,000 esignatures on an epetition so that David Cameron will then be forced either to follow through with his statement or – alternatively – be forced to eat his own words publicly, making it absolutely apparent that he deliberately misled the House – usually a capital offence where they are concerned and certain grounds for his being disciplined by the Speaker and possibly barred from the House for a period of time?
Right now, http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/356 stands at 19,558 signatures and could easily overtake the next one above it with just an additional 100 esignatures.
Why not get everyone you know to sign up to the petition? It can do no harm to get more people involved and it will also help to get People’s Pledge being seen as taking a reasonably active role.
Too right lass, however, its not that people do not care, its that with the women, its the family and the shopping, the price increases, is there enough money for the rent/mortgage, everyday things, as with the men, its can they get a job, where their next pay packet is coming from, the home the family,all these things take precedence in most homes, and when they do perhaps get on their computors, they are ponsing about on silly abstractions, probably as a relief rrom the days cares. The return of the labour party will make not a scrap of difference, perfhaps even worse. Remeber, it was Labour that did asll the sign ing of the treaties, and the agreement to let germany have all the industries works, ie Bombardier. That was Gordon in his look at me with Angela photo session.Albeit, we must remeber the original petulant traitor, Edward Heath, who signed against our wishes, and without consultation even of parliament, to hand this country over to, not I am afarin your map of Euriope, but of the United German republic. Thats how much of a Traitor that Cameron, and indeed his predessors are, and were. This sdituation was mapped out as bafr back as 1947,in Germany, and Edwrad Heath signed up to the treaty arising from it.Cameron is indeed a worthy Heath successor.
Beren. The apathy that you regard UKIP, will always make sure that we will never ever get a decent government for Britain. As Mark Seddon has said in an article in the Daily Mail, why are our leaders sa afraid of standing up to the EU bullies. The answer could be that they have no idea how to get out of it without losing face.
UKIP is a different kettle of fish, the UKIP MEPs want to come home, but wont while they can at least try to defend our rights, in the EU.If you were really interested in how effective they are, you could go on to their website,www.ukip.org and download some of the actions in Brussels/Straasburg. You may be surprised how servile our Tory, labour and Libdem MEPs are, and how up front and attacking ukip MEPs are,Nigel Farage in particular,who has labelled the future President of Europe,(and Britain)as a man with the charisma
of a wet cloth.
How effective is ukip, in Brussels/Strassburg, they are disliked by the other country’s MEPs, other than those who are also independant, ( Yes, there are equivelent type ukips, in the EU, belonging to other countries who also want out,)and do there very best to combat the diktats that are being used to abuse our freedom. Unfortuneately, our other MEPs put the gravy train first and foremost,so we get things like the latest one, that diabetics lose their driving licences.( Wheres the civil rights lobby now.) The other MEPs also have their own businesses to run, but none the less, turn up each day, to sign in, then depart for their own profit. The sign in, means an amount of money, each day, more than my weeks pension, is handed to them. So, theres one reason why our MEPs would rather we put up with being made into Germans eventually.
To explain the Brussels/Strassburg, the French got the arseole, as the chambers in Brussels became the European parliament, so, to placate the French, every two or three months, the whole kit, and caboodle, is transferred to Strassburg,at massive costs, so that the French are happy. Money is no object, as the Commission know, that our part time Prime Minister will find it somehow, even if we have to sell the family silver, and leave Britain defenceless..
I cannot believe that at this point in time there are only just over 21,000 signatures to the Daily Express petition. Are the majority of British people determined to be ruled by Germany and France. It would seem so.
The same applies to petitions to the EU. A recent petition to prevent the EU making restrictions on public access to certain vitamins and herbal supplements received well over a million signatures Europe-wide (the required number to halt legislation) yet it went ahead anyway.
No, it seems like the democratic process today is simply a game – allowing dissenting voices to grumble but not taking a blind bit of notice. All the while, the powers-that-be dumb down education, and encourage more and more trashy TV, ensuring an increasingly manipulable and unintelligent electorate.
Petitions, debates,that “could”, but more than likely wont take place,phone in petitions, you are right Dave,the status quo, must be maintained, and will be maintained, unless those Tory MPs, some of whom have “boarded” peoplespledge put their money where their mouths are, and tell their part time, semi prime Minister leader, that referendum now, or they all resign their seats. Further more, tell that same leader to return where he really wants to be, in the Liberal Democrat party, and return the Tory party , to the Tories, to elect a new leader with a modicum of guts, and less speeches
We have this Narcissian figure,prattling on about democracy, and overthrowing dictatorships, in Libya, yet, he does not believe in democracy in Britain, and refuses to take us away from the dictatorship, that is now threatening to turn Britain into a German state, something that has been a German aim for years, as also the plan for German domination of Europe,after the war, as far back as 1947.
Unfortuneately, we will not be out of danger, even if we get away from Brussels, as we still have those same politicians, so in love with the gravy train on the continent, who will do their level best to put us back under the hammer. Those pollticians must be removed from power.Whatever party they are in.
Cameron to support the European state, without consent. Well, whats new. We have in the past had Burgess and Maclean,Fuchs,Anthony Blunt, Edward Heath, so whats one more traitor.
The answer is not in just writing to peolplespledge and complaining, though I do it whenever I get mad,I also plague the life out of the correspondance secretaries, at bulletin@conservaties.com so that they know at least one person is watching the treachery, so, does anyone believe anything Cameron says now, even the most rampant Tory supporter , must now realise that is exactly what Cameron is, an EU lackey
Regretfully Mr Cameron has shown himself to be totally unreliable when it comes to keeping his pre-election pledges, nor do I buy the convenient coalition excuse. It would seem he will only respond to political threat making our only hope a forceful combined group of both Tory and Labour MPs determined to get us out of the EU clutches.
That was a rant! Hope you feel better for getting that off your chest! Now, back to the debate…….
Article 136 is of sufficient import to require Cameron to initiate his second referendum ‘guarantee’ that there will be a referendum on any further attempt by the EU to diminish our sovereignty. If it is signed, it will remove all pressure on him to fulfill even that obfuscation as the EU will not even bother to consult member Governments before implementation of further legislation.
I have just checked the e-petition site and the number of epetition signatures for a referendum to leave the EU now stands at 32,446 – which is quite promising. It now stands in sixth place on the list. We must all try to get other people to sign it. I am sure we can get it up above epetitions on subjects such as ‘Public & Private Pension Increases – change from RPI to CPI’ and ‘Make financial education a compulsory part of the school curriculum’, however worthy those goals might be.
I realise that the UK does not have a written constitution but surely there must be some means within Common Law to force the Government to listen to the Electorate. Apart from the Treason Laws. Is there any way that Magna Carta can be used to force compliance with the wishes of the population?
Surely even Cameron isn’t mental enough to sign this? Whats worse is how he can get away with doing it without any consultation with the people! If he does, then every government within the EU is nothing more than a puppet.
I thought there were several e petitions, and that one of them had already received the requisite 100,000, and been presented to No. 10. Haven’t heard anything about it since.
I’ll have to hunt around and see if I can’t find some more information, but I’m certain I read something to that effect in the Daily Telegraph.
With regard to the UK Constitution, remember that Heath took us into the European Comnmunity with only the (whipped) support of the House of Commons. Cameron can do exactly the same without any need to refer the matter to the UK electorate. Due to the nature of the UK “unwritten” constitution, a Prime Minister is a virtual ‘elected dictator’. Even if Cameron has previously given a pledge to hold a referendum in the event that any significant diminution in UK sovereignty occurs, it is virtually certain that he will be able to find a form of weasel words to justify abandoning any such pledge. Just look at his coalition partner and how they upheld their pledge not to increase student tuition fees, as an example. You have to hand it to the euro-federalists: they never waste an opportunity to change a crisis into “ever-closer” union. I see [ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15087683 ] European Commission President Barroso is now using the euro crisis to call for monetary union to be completed by economic union, and that the Commission will present plans for this in the coming weeks. He has also suggested that the ECB will be able to preside over the issuing of trillions of eurobonds. Is this what UK voters signed up to in 1975 (though I was not in the UK at the time)? Simon Marchland above is absolutely right when he says that we (People’s Pledge) need to co-ordinate the activities of Eurosceptic MPS on all sides of the House with the Labour Opposition so that any attempt by Cameron and Clegg to force thorugh any kind of measure which diminishes UK sovereignty and increases UK exposure to EU financial liabilities must be resisted, even if that brings about the end of the present UK Government. Only then could we really start to put into practice the People’s Pledge strategy of getting prospective MPs resolutely to commit themselves to holding a referendum on continuing UK membership of the EU. The number of EU referendum e-petition signatures now stand at 32,628.