Breaking Exclusive: Rebel MPs who voted FOR Referendum Motion
Posted: October 25th, 2011 | Author: srcoster | Filed under: News, Parliament, The People's Pledge Blog | 111 Comments »AYES(voting in favour of the motion)
**111 including both Tellers** 81 Con, 19 Lab, 8 DUP, 1 LD, 1 Green, 1 Ind
Conservative 81
Stuart Andrew
Steve Baker
John Baron
Andrew Bingham
Brian Binley
Bob Blackman
Peter Bone
Graham Brady
Andrew Bridgen
Steve Brine
Fiona Bruce
Dan Byles
Douglas Carswell
Bill Cash
Christopher Chope
James Clappison
Tracey Crouch
David T.C. Davies
Philip Davies
David Davis
Nick de Bois
Caroline Dinenage
Nadine Dorries
Richard Drax
Mark Field
Lorraine Fullbrook
Zac Goldsmith
James Gray
Chris Heaton-Harris
Gordon Henderson
George Hollingbery
Philip Hollobone
Adam Holloway
Stewart Jackson
Bernard Jenkin
Marcus Jones
Chris Kelly
Andrea Leadsom
Jeremy Lefroy
Edward Leigh
Dr. Julian Lewis
Karen Lumley
Jason McCartney
Karl McCartney
Stephen McPartland
Anne Main
Patrick Mercer
Nigel Mills
Anne-Marie Morris
James Morris
Stephen Mosely
Sheryll Murray
Caroline Nokes
David Nuttall
Matthew Offord
Neil Parish
Priti Patel
Andrew Percy
Mark Pritchard
Mark Reckless
John Redwood
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Simon Reevell
Laurence Robertson
Andrew Rosindell
Richard Shepherd
Henry Smith
John Stevenson
Bob Stewart
Gary Streeter
Julian Sturdy
Sir Peter Tapsell
Justin Tomlinson
Andrew Turner
Martin Vickers
Charles Walker
Robin Walker
Heather Wheeler
Craig Whittaker
John Whittingdale
Dr. Sarah Wollaston
Labour 19
Ronnie Campbell
Rosie Cooper
Jeremy Corbyn
Jon Cruddas
John Cryer
Ian Davidson
Natascha Engel
Frank Field
Roger Godsiff
Kate Hoey
Kelvin Hopkins
Steve McCabe
John McDonnell
Austin Mitchell
Dennis Skinner
Andrew Smith
Graham Stringer
Gisela Stuart
Mike Wood
Lib Dem 1
Adrian Sanders
DUP 8
Gregory Campbell
Nigel Dodds
Jeffrey Donaldson
Dr. William McCrea
Ian Paisley Jr.
Jim Shannon
David Simpson
Sammy Wilson
Green 1
Caroline Lucas
Independent 1
Lady Hermon
POSITIVE ABSTENTIONS (Went through both Aye & No lobbies) 2
Ian Stewart (Conservative)
Mike Weatherley (Conservative)
Sign the People’s Pledge for an EU referendum
With the farcical vote in parliament this evening, over and done. I believe the result was never in doubt, what with “Bully Boy Dave” and “Clegg’s Clot’s” along with Miliband’s Marauder’s, The vote, (for a debate on a referendum) was a lost cause.
Ok so what now?
How about another Downing Street Petition, only this time, instead of requesting a debate in Parliament on a referendum, how about DEMANDING A REFERENDUM ON LEAVING EUROPE.
If the PEOPLE keep the pressure up, they will have to give in.
Go on you Tories!!!
Good to see some MPs who represent their constituents views and wishes especially my local MP, Martin Vickers. Now is the time to have a referendum when the EU’s bargaining position is at it’s weakest. They would be forced into conceding powers for fear of UK membership cessation. This shows how weak Cameron really is.
Why doesn’t Adam Holloway appear on the list of Aye supporters?
Oh well, Oliver Colville won’t be getting my vote at the next election. It may be one voice against many, but I’m English/British, am not and never will be a European…nor do I want to be!
well done to all who voted for the motion including my m.p justin tomlinson swindon north.so sad that the other m.p’s prefer the eu running this country.still they will get what they deserve come the next election the electorate will remember.
It’s nice to know there are 111 MPs in Parliament who are decent, honest men with integrity who follow their conscience and are not arrogant traitors to the UK.
And so many arguments (I watched it all) by Tories against the motion were so disingenuous and dishonest, especially the ones who claimed to be Eurosceptic but! We all saw through them, they were pushing themselves forward for a job in Government!
Any Eurosceptic Tory voter in constituencies of MPs who voted against the motion should seriously take heed to the following sayings at the next election:
1. If you always do what you have done, you will always get what you always got (or, if you always vote the way you have always done, you will always get the same policies as you have always got).
2. Voters in a democracy always get the government they deserve!
Rebecca Harris —Castle Point——-what an utter disappointment—-just wait for the next election Rebecca.
Rebecca Harris —Castle Point——-what an utter disappointment—-just wait for the next election Rebecca.
At least 80 Conservatives have the courage of their convictions and voted for their constituenets. The two abstentions are rather spineless. Now we just have to wait for them to rewrite the the consitution then Cameron wil have NO excuse for not holding a referendum even the French have had that given to them.
Like Global Warming membership of the EU is a con and if Cameron thinks this country will ever be in the forefront he should think again, just listen to what Sorkosky said to him two days ago. “You don’t use the
Euro so why should you be at our meetings” They are quite happy to take our £40 million a day but not prepared to let us have a say. Our MP’s should listen to their constituents and stop worrying about their careers, Churchill was a rebel with speeches against his own government in the early 30′s look what happened to him — he became the best Prime Minister this country ever had.
I hope that these honest Tories will be the backbone of the post Cameron party. I find it very disappointing that people such as William Hague should put forward such pathetic dross and am thinking very dark thoughts as to the motives of such people
David Cameron has proved hime to be no more than another Europhile trying to pretend that he is a Eurorealist. The Conservative party cannot be trusted, any more than can the Blairite Labour party. Our politcians will never gi
ve up their places on the EU gravy train until we drag them out of the chamber
I totally respect those MPs, and particularly the tory MPs, who were honest & upstanding enough to stand by their convictions and to HONOUR the democratic rights of their electorate by voting against the Governments COMMANDs!
Such governmental action is, in my view, a disgrace and is indicative of the route that this once wonderful country is now sadly taking…
That route is now surely towards an UNDEMOCRATIC future ?
As a FORMER lifelong TORY supporter, also as a FORMER small time tory politician I find this current tory attitude abhorent and will now form whatever action group is necessary in support of DEMOCRACY and FOR a Referendum at my earliest opportunity…
Government, and Tories, seem to have lost the plot and do NOT appear to know what is actually happening at street level!
I will be most happy to spearhead any local support action FOR the “Peoples Pledge” and for a referendum!
I would like to thank all the MPs who voted for this motion, especially my own MP Jacob Rees-Mogg. It cannot have been easy to defy the Whips but it is an important start towards allowing us, the people, a say in how we are governed.
VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH ROBERT HALFON
Whilst Cameron is strutting the World stage preaching democracy to other countries he has failed to allow it in his own. His “over the top” reaction to deny the electoate a referendum on EU membership will only cause more trouble in the future. The British people as a whole will not like the feel of being under the rule of a dictatorship that has now been fully exposed. One day, the law abiding good people of Britannia will say enough is enough – will it come to the likes of Cameron, Blair, Clegg, and others being dragged screaming from a storm drain by a lynch mob……………………..
A good beginning!
How proud the constituents of those MPs must be of them?
Pity there arnt more who are strong and who can stand up for their convictions.
Perhaps this last vote will inspire those who have shown those who are weak-kneeded and havent stood up and shown their hands for their constituents.
We know WHO they are!
We all have to face something hard at sometime in our lives.
Even those whose knees are knocking can vote for what is right.
How ashamed they must be feeling this morning.
Vote them out next chance you get and get yourself a truly honest strong MP.
Sorry to report that my own MP is NOT among the Ayes list – he is the disgraced Mr Fox….
Just to say thank you for doing this – and a big thank you to the 111 brave and moral MPs to stood against the slayer of democracy!
All those MPs who voted AGAINST have, in effect, voted against DEMOCRACY. It would be lovely if they were all kicked out in the next “democratic” election. Unfortunately, I can’t see that happening!!
It would be better to have a list of those who voted against it, then we could avoid voting for them on polling day
How shameful was that. One after the other stood up and said that it wasn’t about a referendum, it was about Democracy and all those parasites turned their backs. Mother of all Parliaments? More like the deepest sewer!
My MP ( Tory ) voted against. He will not get my vote again Bert Leech Bedford
To all the MP’s named above I would like to say a HUGE ‘Thank You’ for standing up for the British people on this issue. Cameron should hang his head in shame, as should the other two weak leaders Milliband & Clegg.
Steve Blake
Hampshire
Keep going they cant ignore the people for ever
The three political parties, Liberal, Conservative, and Labour told their MP’s they must vote against having a referendum. That now is British Democracy. There is absolutely no point in having an election to select your representative for Parliament from these parties since they, and this Country, are governed by their un-elected political party machines.
It is about time we forget about naming and shaming individual MP’s, by bringing into focus the undemocratic way these political parties and our un-elected Civil Servants are controlling this Country.
Proves the majority of parliamentarians have no principles. Liberal Democrats = “Brutus” .
There is no point in any of the above remaining in their parties after this.They should all come over to UKIP>
I guess we will just have to adopt the EU model then! That is demand another vote until the MP’s get it right, just as Ireland was forced to do. I think they forget this was not about party politics or conservative back benchers versus David Cameron, but rather the will of the people transcending party political lines. The leaders of all the parties should take heed of that
I have to agree with you on this RC but frankly the “result” was actually better than initially imagineable in one respect perhaps?…
The “tories” seem hell bent on a suicidal course of “RENEGOTIATION” that imho can never ever be.
NOW the public will hopefully be “ON THEIR CASE” given OUR support.
It will surely be up to US to inform the public of the financial haemorrage, that is OUR contribution, into the EU leaking pot…!
The Germans and the French are likewise hell bent on stopping ANY UK further “interference” and how would this tory government EVER overturn that mindset of thinking within the EU countries?…
beside the two protagonists (Germans & French) they WOULD also have to convince several extremely poor countries/members would would most certainly NOT benefit from our witdrawal and who are a very FIRM PART of the EU gravy train in terms of now enjoying OUR considerable subscriptions to that farcical organisation…would THEY wish to become poor again…I seriously doubt it… so why would THEY agree with anything WE say or attempt to RE- Negotiate…?
I was very proud of all the people who stood up in parliament yesterday and spoke so well and so strongly for democracy and for our country. In my view, particular shame attaches to those who stood up and said “Yes, I agree with the need for a referendum but I won’t be voting for it yet.” To my more militant eyes, they looked sycophantic. After all, it is thirty eight years now since sovereignty started to be given away with a rapid acceleration over the past couple of decades. There hasn’t been a “right” time in the past and I seriously doubt that there will be a “right” time in the future. Politicians had no right to give us away to a foreign power. Why, they had so little nous that we even have to pay for the privilege of being in bondage!
I congratulate my own MP, Peter Bone. He has long spoken out on this issue and I thought spoke particularly well at the close of the debate. Congratulations also go to Jacob Rees-Mogg. What a fantastic speaker he is. But every single person who spoke up for the referendum spoke up very well indeed and I am proud of you all and encouraged.
Now I am in a dilemma. As I have said, my own MP stood up and was counted. I have, however, previously written to him to tell him that, while I know he is a very good MP, he is in a political party where the leadership is paying no heed to him and his backbench colleagues and is certainly not paying any heed to me a mere voter. So, I have told him than unless his Party does something about either Europe or England, I will see them as being unpatriotic and will never, therefore, vote for him again. This puts me in a quandary.
On a side not, I feel that it is a shame that this forum section is not a full-blown forum. I didn’t particularly notice before but recently, I haven’t been receiving any updates to threads despite subscribing with a correct email address. I have resorted to keeping the initial email notification of a topic in my “in-box” in order to find my way back to a topic! But whoever is funding the People’s Pledge and this site, I am very grateful!
This particular battle may be lost but the fight for our democracy goes on. The size of the rebel vote will send out a chill message to the arrogant party leaders and the elites that despite all their threats a large number of their MPS don’t trust them on this the most important of political questions – who is to govern the United Kingdom? 111 men and women have now stood up and said it is right that the people decide. The power of this simple argument in the end will win, despite the politicians machiavellian tactics. It is only a matter of time.
One of the most disingenuous arguments that was put forward by many MPs who voted against the motion last night was that there is a third way – a way of leading reform of the EU from within and repatriating powers back to national Governments. Clegg says Britain should be leading the reform of Europe not leaving it etc etc. We hear this time and time again but examples of success following this strategy are as rare as hens teeth. Malcolm Rifkind, that arch Europhile, made a pathetic case for this last night in the chamber. What are these guys on? He makes this argument just as France and Germany plan a new treaty that will centralise economic and fiscal powers to the EU centre, an argument that poor naive Cameron will not even be involved in (Sarkozy told him to eff off because UK is not in Euro) and will have zero influence in. Rifkind and his kind need to retire from politics because they don’t even understand the questions let alone the answers they are so out of touch with reality.
The very few successes the UK have had with the EU have been when we said NO. Take Mrs Thatcher’s winning of the rebate which she got when she put her foot down and said NO. The EU will continue to centralise powers until enough people say NO. It’s as simple as that. The paradox is that if the UK told the EU we were going to have a referendum they would tremble, and our negotiating hand would be significantly strengthened not weakened – people like Clegg don’t understand that, or worse stil understand that but hide their true motive which is the subjugation of the UK into the EU.
COLIN,
”CURRENT” TORY ATTITUDE, ITS BEEN THE SAME FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS.
Listened to all the debate and really enjoyed the speeches particularly the one by Jacob Rees Mogg which included some humorous moments. Should mark him up as being a future Prime Minister now we know the true thoughts of the present incumbent. We will all have to give it some serious thought as to whether we consider giving them all a good kicking and vote UKIP next time around. Couldn’t get my head round as to why the labour benches were so sparse during the debate but realised when all the rabble walked into the chamber at 10pm making all the noise, that they had all been topping themselves up with subsidised drinks already aware of which way they were going to vote thanks to their leaders.TRUE DEMOCRACY doesn’t it make you proud to be British (Sorry am I still allowed to say British).
My MP Paul Blomfield had a conflict of intrest, his wife is a member of the EU Parliament for yokshire and humberside. So he could hardly vote to sack his own wife. How many other of these examples are there like this?
MP blomfield on his site says it is a right-wing inspired petition. I did note Skinner and Corbyn voted for the referendum.
As a life long socialist labour voter he is what is wrong with the Labour party today.
the PM and his equally deluded colleagues are saying we need to ‘deal with’ the ‘eurozone crisis’ and ‘noiw is not the time form a referendyum’. The eurozone crisis is casued by politcal interference in economic realities. They appear to have no concept of ‘dealing with’ anything except to throw money at it. As soon as the money stops, greece will go down.The voting against a referendum was based on the premise that the ‘problems’ can be ‘dealt with’, but in reality, they cannot. What will hapoen when Greece defaults and the rest follow suit?
After 13 years fighting UKIP’s corner I can only ask where were UKIP ? Their absence from all this campaign was only equelled by their silence. I am sorry but until they get a leader with the courage of his convictions they are not going anywhere. I can only ask when I read, that Mr. farage was cheered on his appearance, What for ???
cameron dictated how his party should vote. we know what happens to dictators dont we. my own mp voted with the whips (wimps) and helen jones will not be getting my vote again.
My MP Shailesh Vara appears not to be on the list. Why does that not surprise me. The shocking thing about all this is Cameron et al stating that this is not the right time. When is it ever the right time? As long as we are shackled to this unelected socialist monster we are going to be in a dark place.
I can’t believe that politicians can say that we had a referendum on the subject in 1975. We voted on a common market which was supposed to improve trading conditions not this nightmare.
I have signed it already ,
We should take a leaf out of the EU book and keep asking the question until we get the right answer !
Why is not Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) on the list? On the doorstep he was proclaiming Euroscepticism.
My MP, Dominic Raab, assured me in an e-mail ” We still don’t know what the text of the motion or motions will be on Monday, so I am reluctant to pre-judge it. But, I won’t vote against the holding of a referendum. I advocate a referendum (at some point) on a renegotiated relationship based on the Common Market! I hope that reassures you!”
His name is NOT among the principled MP’s who voted against the three-line whip.
Mr Cameron promised the electorate a referendum before he came to power, and now he has reneged on this. I am very disappointed in William Hague, too. How can we believe ANYTHING they say. I’m definitely voting UKIP in future!
So can we rely on these mps to ask the 1922 committee to issue a vote of no confidence in the PM? cast iron pig iron Dave needs to pay with his job.
How about someone starting a public campaign to have cameron removed from office. He is a traitor to this country.
To the ones who voted for a referendum THANK YOU for the others including my local MP who is also one of Cameron’s cronies, he should be totally ashamed of himself ( hope you enjoy your work and the gravy train when you are finished, I shall certainly never vote for you or your party again. UKIP will have my vote and it serves you right if you lose the next election, I and my children want the right to decide, they have never had the chance and it is their future you are ruining Mr Minister for Northern Ireland.
Oh dear what was your name, I have forgotten it already.
Having been at Saturdays conference in Westminster and hearing your MPs pathetic spiel (imho) I am NOT surprised at his weak vote…!
MY MP (Richard Fuller-Bedford & Kempston) also voted against this referendum and, upon studying his form in the house, he has also voted away our sovereignty as well and appears intent on us becoming FULLY involved in Europe?
I WAS once a tory, and a local politician myself. I had served them well in excess of 35 years, many as an executive member, also as an elected councillor, Cabinet Member and Portfolio holder in their name…
NO MORE…!
All power to those of our Politicians who have the bottle to put their money where there mouth is.
I can even admire those that really believe that the EUSSR is the best way to go.
The detestable ones are those that follow the party line, those that have neither, honour or principle,and then there are the real scum who favour the shambles for what they think they will get out of it.
Indeed. What they don’t seem to realise is that allowing a referendum does not commit them either way on the question. They are merely admitting that such decisions should be taken by more than just the members of the Houses of Parliament. I don’t think any constituent would feel the worse about an MP who supported a referendum and then campaigned vigorously to maintain the status quo.
Congratulations and many thanks to all the MP’S of all parties who voted for this motion. I object most strongly to these MP’s being refered to as Rebels, they are NOT rebels but true PATRIOTS.
Jenny Carter
Nicolas Soames West Sussex. Just to let Nicloas Soames know that my husband and I plus our family who have always voted for Conservative will never vote for him again.
Congratulation to all MP’s who had the backbone to vote for a referendum.
A big thankyou to the Tory rebels, at least there is a pocket of DEMOCRACY in the Conservative party.
My MP Desmond Swayne voted against the motion so he can say goodbye to my vote.
I will be voting UKIP at the next election and will be persuading others to do the same,
I have voted Conservative for all of my adult life….. my first vote was for Michael Heseltine in the Gower …. must be be 55 years ago, Memmories !!!!!!!Bob Owens
The Congress was very interesting with so many different speakers from across the political spectrum, and I, for one, really hoped for a good result in the House of Commons.
I think that result was achieved, it was a voice for reason, and it provoked what I felt was an excellent debate.
The gauntlet has been thrown down, and I hope that many, many more voices will join ours in continuing the fight for a referendum, one where we at the bottom of the pile finally get to rectify the mistakes that some of us made in voting for what we believed was a Common Market.
I would really love to know if it would be possible to ask all those who voted YES in 1975, whether we would have done so, knowing what we know now.
I rather think it would be 90+% saying NO..
My congratulations to all those who took the bit between their teeth and voted for their constituents and their hearts and minds.
Well done.
NEVER so anti democratic or in fact ANTI ENGLAND/ENGLISH as now though Bob…My lot were at least attempting to REMAIN loyal and to do what OUR electorate voted us in to do.
In my day these current antics would have seen the end to the MPs reign PDQ…this lot can’t wait to see EU as one…!
Hi Bert… I am also in Bedford and that ‘person’ also has a dire history and in fact had it seemed voted AGAINST sovereignty as well…check out his speech history in the house…
I SO agree…(to JW)
Heard Nick Clegg on tonights TV news stating categorically, as I already have here and elsewhere, that Camerons idea of REGENERATING the missmash of EU issues is suicidal and will NEVER & CANNOT work…
SO…do I detect a split ahead and Cleggy trying for a shot on goal or two here…?
Shame it won’t work for you Mr Clegg as your ‘own party’ has, and will, always continue to snipe from the side lines, sit on their own fences, and never become liable and to make their OWN decisions…
IF & whenever they did, they ALWAYS talked tosh and fell off of their fence & directly into the whatsit…proven fact..whenever GIVEN control…they don’t know HOW…!
(just MY opinion of course!)
John. This is called a political Cartel, and its been in action for years now, tp make absolutely sure, that our poltics are run by either Labour or Tory. As Always, peopple will be faced with the alternative, ” if you do not vote fopr me, you will get them back again.” Alternatively the other side will say, “if you vote for him,you will all suffer.” What we have to do, is break that mould, do the unthinkable, do not vote for the party that you have voted for all your adult life. Anyone thinking that we have three different parties, surely must now realise that all three parrties sang from the same Hymnn book in parliament.The words, Its not the time, its not the time, and sotto voco, it will never be the time.
Remeber. a referendum in Britain, is a bribe to get into popwer. used by Blair, Cameron, Camerton v via Clegg, Camerton via Welsh assembly, and whorwemebers theb erarly days of peoplespledge, when Milliband said ” If I am elected Prime M<inister I will give the British people a referendum, on leaving the EU" How the tune changed, as untrustworthy as Cameron.
Camerton, cannot abide the UKIP, so, council elections coming,give them the vote, and watch Camerton mess his pants.
Colin. Re-negotiation is for the weak kneed of the Tory party, who have not the courage of those who voted for the people,nor the conviction that they are doing right. They seek to placate both sides, the public, and the party, hoping that the issue will go away, we must make sure that does not happen.
The one thing that has come out of this farce, is that the politicians, have now admitted, albeit, not directly,. that we have lost most of our power to the EU. Hence, another one of Camerons pointless statements, that he will take back power from the EU. ie to take back, means you gave it away in the first place.
I am far from being computor trained, as my typing will show, so have no knowledge if or how, all our mails could not be forewarded to bulletin@conservatives.com so that Cameron, Hague, who seems to have lost the plot, can perhaps read them, and see that is them, against the vast population that wants out.
Well done to Nigel Mills MP for Amber Valley for voting for the referendum, and well done to the brave 110 also. When you have to face the electorate at the next election you can all hold your heads up high. Again well done.
Like David Nathanson, I have noted how Rebecca Harris voted. I specifically stated in an email to her that I was not asking her to change her views on the EU but allow me the democratic right to express my views in a referendum. She did not have the courage to do so, it will be remembered at the next election
Well done to John Cryer, I’m no natural labour voter – but for acts like this, I may vote for him again.
One of te things about the EU, is their methods of keeping their underhandedness free from our attention. They are helped in this by our MEPs, and also our present government and opposition.There are many things going on at the EU that are being kept from us, fortuneatley, as memebers of UKIP. we are kept informed as to some of the thinhs that are going on, that they do their utmost to keep secret.
Firstly. those who run away with the idea that UKIP is a lone little group, could not be further from the truth,almost every country in the union has its equivelent of UKIP, and al,.these groups are now bandfed under the Group, Independant. Has any of our MPs reported that Baroness Ashton, has claimed the Falklands as EU property,Cmaron knows, but keeps shtum, hoping for a Presidency,did anyone know thatin our contributionsm, we are building uip an EU army, and an EU Navy,perhapstghats why the ARK ROYAL was decommissioned, as a gifty to his French Friend that was, for the EUNAVFOR, that none of our politicvians have infoprmed us about.Did yopu know, that our MEPs went along with a gagging ordr, to keep quiet about an expenses racket, that dwarfgs that of our own greedy MPs. Tike to gop on the ukip.org website, and find out a few more facts, better still jopin ukip, and make Camerons day, REALLY GLOOMY.
Not surprised that the name of David Morris was not on the list. As I warned him, neither he nor his party will get my vote next time. I will vote for someone who listens to the people.
Sorry about typing its been a long day.jher ty
Glad to see my MP Marcus Jones of Nuneaton and another 110 mps, have the courage of their convictions, and voted the way their constituents wished. Bring on the next vote – hopefully very soon
Hear, Hear!!
Thanks go not only to all of the above MPs, but also to those from the People’s Pledge who gave their time to represent those of us who couldn’t attend.
Whilst MPs are paid to represent the electorate’s wishes(of which two thirds wanted a referendum), we should also show our appreciation to those who, at cost to themselves in both time and money, spoke out for those of us who would liked to have been there, but couldn’t.
I do feel there would be a distinct benefit, regarding furthering this initiative, if – those of us who can- were to form local groups to not only voice our ‘local’ discontent but, better still, to drill down to the nitty gritty and to show EACH & EVERY local MP just what we think of the EU and at the same time to INFORM the local public about the facts they NEED TO KNOW ?
This could be by the usual methods perhaps i.e.local press letters, attending local political meetings to speak out to THEM, as people really SHOULD but rarely ever do anyway, OR for any people really organised and able, to form local groups & meetings such as any other political groups do.If not then I’m afraid our current momentum will be diluted in the usual way- as has been the case within politics resulting in the status quo that we now find this country in…it IS “people power” at the end of the day…but people need to be “in it to win it”…!
David Cameron said in his speech before the debate that this was not the right time to have a referendum on our membership – he said it was in our national interest to sort out the problems in the Eurozone and Britain needs to be a part of that discussion instead of having a referendum on membership.
Well what did Cameron get in return for knocking back a referendum in the UK? Did he get a seat at the high table with France and Germany at the heart of discussions about the Eurozone crisis?
Guess what….Cameron is going to get a maximum of 6 minutes (probably less) to present the UK view on the Eurozone crisis in a 60 minute pre-meeting of all 27 EU countries, before the main meeeting of 17 countries (led by France and Germany) who use the Euro finalise the deal which will create a closer fiscal union. The UK and other 9 countries not in Euro will have to leave the room when the real meeting starts. I gave Cameron the benefit of the doubt in the 6 minutes because I assumed the 60 minute pre-meeting (Sarkozy refused non-Euro using countries (such as UK) to be part of main meeting) will be used to let the 10 non-Euro using countries have equal time, 60 mins divided by 10 countries = 6 mins each! That’s a nice reward from the EU for stopping a UK referendum – Cameron really got a lot out of that!
Contrast that reward from the EU with what Cameron might have got if he had said to the EU that the UK would be holding a referendum on their membership of the EU.
If the UK threatened to leave the EU that would have really worried the French and Germans since confidence in the whole European politic project would have been undermined with knock-on effects for the Euro. The UK would have been summoned to the high table quicker than your head could spin and the UK would probably have been in the main meeting. Our negotiating hand would have been increadibly strong (we would have had the other members over a barrel) and could have probably re-patriated powers back to UK as part of cooperation in some deal to support the Euro.
What this tells me is that either we have incompetent people such as Cameron representing us in Europe (people who don’t understand how to negotiate in the national interest), or people who are actually lying to us in telling us they want to repatriate powers back to the UK but in reality have no intention of doing that at all.
I voted in 1975. I was very young and not very informed politically. My parents had always been Conservative voters and for the main, I have followed suit. This has been from conviction not habit, But times are changing my convictions and my habits!
I understood that the votewas about a free trade agreement. I voted against it because I thought we had good trading partners with the Commonwealth countries and should be faithful to them. European countries seemed to me to be more alien in their culture and politics.
As it turns out, I am very glad that I did not vote for the “Common Market” but obviously, I was ignorant of the major reason for voting against it.!
Sadly, I tend to think that they are lying to us and have no intention of repatriating powers.
To Len Baynes
Nigel Farage was in Parliament Square, lobbying, if you had been there you’d have seen him.
These words caught my attention from a Liverpool Councillor at the peoples pledge conference. ‘I question how many schools, libraries, leisure centre’s and children’s centres would we not have to shut if we were not subsidizing the EU with £45 million of our taxes each and every day.’ He is President of the Liberal Party Steve Radford. The Liberal Party which turns out not to be the LibDem collaborators to the Tory leader but still in a very depleted form the true voice of Liberalism. I also saw that Adrian Sanders MP voted for the referendum. Is he like me? Does he recognise that the EU is not a free trade association but such an illiberal organisation that it cannot be allowed to progress in any current shape or form. It strikes me that what the non-parliamentary Liberal Party needs is an MP. Is Sanders the answer? And what on earth is Simon Hughes MP doing supporting such an illberal position? Lead us and lead us Liberals soon!
Breaking Exclusive: Rebel MPs who voted FOR Referendum Motion.
Like you Bob, D Swayne is my MP, I stopped voting for him when Cameron decided he loved the EU more than having our independence. I too will be voting for UKIP from now on. May I suggest that all the MP’s who voted for the motion on Monday, change their allegiance and sign up to UKIP. You’d be supprised, but UKIP hold stronger tory views than this present bunch of conservatives.
Such pathetic DELAYING TACTICS, for that is what they are at BEST, will surely guarantee seeing us going over and over, the same old same old, in another 2 to 4 years or more hence…!
We’ve already heard of similar delays (while at Saturdays Conference) whereby similar EU issues, that were supposed to have been all sorted by 2008 were NOW delayed for TEN YEARS… until 2018 isn’t THAT the M.O. ?
Its all very well, as a.n.other rightly spoke on this forum,to keep on representing this referendum or our want to be rid of the Eu until we get what we want etc BUT… every minute wasted see’s us pouring MORE MONEY than we can afford into that gaping chasm that is the Eu Fund.
Vote UKIP Colin, give hem at least a fighting chance, and you will not be diappointed, over one milklion memebers now, and growing, the bonus is that Cameron is running scared of UKIP, as they know what his MEPs are up to in Brussels, and they do tell their members.www.ukip.org Go on Colin, have a peek.
It will if you change your voting habits, Trevor, there areother parties,
Do not let Cameron know, he is supposed to be connected to our Royalty, albeit the black sheep perhaps,
They will untill we clean out the House of Commons, long overdue, get it done in time for the Lisbon treaty to be activated,and our new government from the EU moves in, as per treaty.
No Ian, Liberal democrats, Jackals, waiting to pick over the remains.
Hear Hear raymond, they will and are so doing.
Interesting, Beren, That rebate Mrs thatcher won, was reduced considerably when Tony Blairm tried to “re-negotiate” the Common Agriculture policy with the Fishing policy, for better deals for British Farmers, and , the EU did absolutely nothing, no reform of either, and our incredibly swhats left of our fishing industry,the EU agreed, he gave up part of our rebate, yhe EU ignored the deal, and the CAP is today, as it was when we lost that rebate.Our etupid politicians talk about re-negotiation, they stand no chance.
Cameron will step in with our money,claim he is tye Messiah, run us deeper in debt while his head expands.
Sorry mate, we never voted on a common market, Heath did, we were left to vote on staying in something that we never joined in the first place. The firsty example of the referendum that never happened, even partliament was by passed.
John (Bodkin), I did change my voting. I am old enough to have had a vote in 1975 and I voted against the Common Market because I thought trading with the Commonwealth countries was more beneficial to us.
I never held membership of a political party because I always voted for the person I thought could do the best job for my area. However, when I saw how things were going, I joined UKIP about 6 years ago. In that time I have seen them grow from a pressure group to a political force that would have had members in the House of Commons – if it wasn’t for our antiquated voting system.
David Cameron, once told his MPs to appear to the voters, as Eurosceptic, purely to steal votes from the ukip. TYhiswas tye eelection when at Bromey Kent, ukip pushed Labour in to thridf place, and reduced a Tory majority of 4000, to around 400. So, Lying was not successful on that occasion.Just shows how dihonest Eton/Oxford educated can be.
Right Ron, you lead, and others will follow. Just tell us how
Keep yolur promise Laura, http://www.@ukip.org
J.WE. Wash your mouth out, using such a word as Patriots.
Bob, start with ukip, at the next Council elections, nothing is bound to get up Camerons nose, than the thought of ukip, making progress.
Beren, we did have a very good trading arrangement with the cmmonwealth, who in two world wars , have fought against the would be world conquerors,with Britain, and more shame to the Tory party, it was a Tory Prime minister, Harold McMillan, who dumped those allies in favour of trading with the EU. Needless to say, our former partners were snapped uip by the | EU, who then got the trade that McMillan had thrown away. McMillan was acting under pressure from the Americans, who thought they saw a way, to rule the world, and the contimnent, via us, using our country as a gateway. How wrong they were.
One thing about the Americans,full of bullshit, we stopped our day raids on germany, because of losses, along came the eighth armny air force, landed atmy station, sneering, depropcating, and telling us tyhey wouild show us how it was done. We bided our time,they went on their first “mission”, came back with a large number of gaps in their flights, and were exrtremely silent after that. L,e I said, bull shit,and all piss and wind
Whats the matter with you John, having hot flushes or something else. I didn’t think it was necessary to start insulting others on this board or was it a poor form of a joke.
Dictionary = a person who loves his/her country and passionately supports its interests
JW
Rehman Chishti MP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,where are you on the list,,,,,The people voted you in ,,,next time you will be voted out,,shame on you.
To the brave mps who are on the list ,,thank you .
STAGE TWO’
Merkel has tried the EURO, has found it flawed so now she resoughts to stage two WAR if the EURO fails. That is her type of negotiation skill, but if it’s to be, I would rather die fighting for democracy than grovel to little upstarts in Europe. You have been warned by Merkel, David. Better build up your military and get those ships back and also the Jump Jets, Get us out of the EU NOW, I STILL WANT MY REFERENDUM.
Just as we predicted Cameron was sidelined at the Eurozone crisis meeting – he was not involved in the key discusssions late last night between the 17 EU countries that use the Euro which was thrashed out between Germany and France. He left earlier to go to Australia. Looks like his velvet glove approach to Europe succeeded again as we were at the heart of discussions – NOT!
Worrying thing now is the canny Germans have refused to put any more of their dosh in the pot to bale out the Eurozone, and instead they will be looking to “cooperation from the IMF and other other countries particularly China”. Guess what? If the IMF agrees to that then the gool old UK will be asked to put its hand in its empty pockets again! Let me ask you why would the IMF or China or anybody else want to buy Eurozone debts (bonds) when the Germans don’t want to buy them! Answer me that? The IMF, and China in particular are not fools!
The elephant in the room is Italy and Spain. There is no prospect for growth in Europe over next few years which means widening national debts for these countries. That 1 trillion debt baleout fund is not going to be anywhere near enough to solve the problem. The same countries will have to come back in the new year to negotiate new write-downs and baleouts.
As I understand it, the ‘business dinner’ to which our Dave was NOT invited, was not for him anyway
(as it was purely for those IN the Eurozone/single currency farce.)
Instead, as I understand it, he attended another dinner nearby along with certain other country peeps also NOT in the EU (Austrians and Swedes etc)
I just wonder if he was ‘sucking it to see’ what it MIGHT be like OUTSIDE the ratrappings of Europe as we know it…?
Then again maybe he’s becoming stuck for mates…?
Just a thought…?
“I would rather be poor and free, rather than a slave” …….Kirk Douglas in Spartacus.
Yes, I fear you are right. The Tory party has always had two strands since the breakup of the British Empire – the defeatists (aka the “wets”) and the for want of a better word “the thatcherites”). The defeatists believe that the UK is too weak to survive on its own in the World with its globalisation and tarding blocs and its future can only be assured as part of bloc like the EU. The Thatcherites believe this is wrong an that Britains future is as a trading nation trading with all the World and that Britain is strong enough and inovative enough to survive on its own.
Cameron is what have many suspected all along a good old fashioned “wet” and “defeatist”. He believes it is n Britain’s national interest to be part of a big trading bloc, and that bloc is Europe.
I too am totally disappointed in Rebecca Harris, she is obviously more interested in keeping her job than listening to her constituents. I certainly wont be voting for her next time.
Bob Setchfield
Surprise,surprise!! I have just received an email, from my Labour MP who is trying to wriggle off the hook. The wording in the email he sent is virtually the same as the letter my brother-in-law received from his LibDem MP. Has there been a “model letter” created for MPs of all three main parties to explain why we are so much better off in the EU!!
SO…a ‘deal’ has been struck and the debt issue is resolved regarding the Eu debt (Greece etc) BUT….
SO…how come this is so when NO details were discussed, several countries are yet to sort out who’s going to pay what and there’s MO money in the REAL WORLD POT anyway?
China has been “invited to invest” – despite China actually STILL being poor themselves anyway…?
WE (the UK banks) are said NOT to be liable for any more money from OUT banks yet at the same time the IMF is needed to make the deal possible…(SO…have we recently come OUT of any IMF membership & dealings perhaps?????)
Would YOU “invest” in say a friends business knowing that he was NOT capable of EVER doing his books honestly, had misrepresented his financial status JUST to become your friend in the first place and has a HISTORY of losing money for several years, together with the FACT that he was NOT capable of actually making ANY product or money anyway let alone any profit…?
Maybe I’m just a cynic though huh…?
The moment of truth is nearly upon us – the moment when all those politicians will have to pull of their masks and show us what they really believe in.
Following the discussions on the Eurozone crisis it is clear that there will be a new two tier Europe – an inner core of countries who use the Euro and agree to closer political and fiscal union (effectively a new state run to suit French and German economic interests i.e interest rates set to suit those economies as well as national budgets approved by the centre and maybe even tax rates) and an outer tier of countries within the EU but not using the Euro. Currently there are 17 countries in the Euro club and 10 countries outside it including the UK. Poor old Greece has decided to stay in the Euro club (among the 17) which will mean their people will have to change their country to run their finances like Germany and France.
The problem is those in the outer tier will have less influence because they are outvoted by 17 to 10 on all future EU policy development. Since we have majority voting on more and more areas (giving up our national veto) the UK will have less and less influence on EU laws and policies being handed down from the EU commisssion (dominated by the Euro club) to the EU member states. This brings closer the day when the UK will have to decide to join the Euro and the inner Euro club or leave the EU altogether. The worst of all options would be stay in the EU but be outside the Euro club since that would mean effectively we had given up any pretence of being a sovereign country being subject to laws we had no influence over.
So the Eurozone crisis brings closer the day we have a referendum on “in” or “out”. “In” means we join the Euro and become a member of the inner Euro club, “Out” means we leave the EU completely. The third option that the politicians keep talking about of staying in the EU and reforming it from within to make a looser bloc of free trade nations is a pipedream and a fantasy, a possibility that has never existed and will never exist. So we can thank the Euro politicians for getting rid of the “third way” off the table. Mr Rifkind – we told you so!
So “In” or “Out” – that is a clear choice for a referendum. Since “In” means a clear transfer of powers and sovereignty we will have to have a referendum. Or will it? It would not surprise me if those Whitehall mandarins and Foreign Office defeatists are already drafting speeches for our political class on how they can join the Euro club without geting consent from the British people.
If we allow that to happen it will a be a sad end for democracy in these islands. When you think of the struggles and sacrifices our forebears had to go through to gradually win the vote and fight for democracy over the centuries, only for the keys to be handed over by a minority of British people to an unelected dictatorship in Europe. During WW2 we had a word for those minority of British people – they were enemies of the state, tried for treason and hanged.
I noticed a number of comments re Rebecca Harris. I too `emailed` my MP, Stephen Twigg, twice (2) whom I still don`t know whether he voted at all or abstained. I pointed out to him that it had been noted the NUMEROUS times that he appears to have NOT voted on European issues in the House. The only time I can get a response from him is when I do it through the `Peoples Pledge`. If there is not a UKIP candidate at the next election in my area of Merseyside I won`t be voting for the first time for 46 yrs. UKIP should do very well at the next election, and sadly, probably the BNP!!
How ironic to see the euro countries, such lovers of human rights, now going cap in hand to China with its abysmal human rights record.
“During WW2 we had a word for those minority of British people – they were enemies of the state, tried for treason and hanged”.
(Ref Kevin above)
Didn’t that man from the Labour Party, with a name that almost rhymes or fits in with BLIAR, sign some paperwork that said that this “crime against the state” was no longer a “crime” & was no longer a crime punishable by death any more anyway ?
THIS issue is a MUST to put before the people of this once fine country…
Sadly we can no longer TRUST the majority of those we once elected to represent US…Instead, they represent THEMSELVES ONLY, therefore WE must take relevant action and BYPASS that blockage…
(ASAP and with GREAT urgency)
I DO fear however that the once great British public will sadly just sit back and moan about it as usual…. BUT will THEN do little to help themselves over this…
WE MUST make sure that does NOT happen at this VERY worrying time…!
BTW…
I also note that D Cameron NOW wants us to remain on SUMMER time for three years as a trial… BUT it will be known as EURO TIME…!!!!!!!
I just checked, he voted against the motion. Interesting, because as you say, he rarely turns up to vote on European issues!
I want to congratulate the courageous MP’s, listed above, who voted in favour of a free debate on our EU-membership. I wrote to my MP, Andrew Robathan, expressing my concerns about the detrimental effects of EU interference in British Affairs, and also of my desire for withdrawal. He sent me a standard reply which outlined his views – which I accept, and noted – but I was disappointed with one of the closing remarks on his memo which stated – with words to the effect – that he wouldn’t be coerced, on this issue. I never once made a threat to withdraw my support from him. But I’ve now come to the conclusion that I’ll be offering my support to the MP who best represents my interests…that’s definitely not Andrew Robathan. UKIP gets my vote at the next election, and sadly not the Conservatives who I’ve supported all my life.
Paul I suggest that the Conservative “ex pats” should all get together and form our OWN party & well before any election run up…after all there are SEVERAL OF “US”…?
I actually resigned from the tories some while ago as it happens due mainly to far too much back stabbing and MY OWN perceptions of the parties road to ruin of the time during quite recent years (based on several issues too)I was not JUST an ordinary member neither!
I now wonder at quite HOW the reckon to operate in the future, with what will plainly be so many members leaving or mhaving already left the party…?
With Europe the monster that it is and devolution for all (except England), Westminster has made itself almost an irrelevance. If Westminster gave England the same degree of devolution as the other countries of the UK, what would its relevance be?
Jenny I trust you wrote AND emailed your MP stating that too…?
IF you did but did NOT get a reply then report that fact to PP?
Regarding those POVs suggesting that “we” might do well joining UKIP?
Frankly I do believe that UKIP has reached its natural “saturation point” and its pinnacle tbh…. where, those that feel that way have already joined anyway, and that other dissaffected members from other major parties are NOT likely to find a home within UKIP…?
(I’m NOT knocking UKIP here-fair play to them I suggest)
My point is that the only way to drive this forward effectively I believe will be to create a completely new party (an “unknown quantity” so to speak)…. as I do feel that UKIP has well known limitations and goals that ARE and DO fail to attract mainline voters…i.e they lack sufficient credibilty -lack any real credible personalities as well and have reached their pinnacle already perhaps…?
A NEW UNKOWN quantity party I believe might just have the effect of absorbing voters displaced from other main parties who would NOT go to UKIP anyway, almost as a PROTEST VOTE party?
Nothing wrong with starting up a “PEOPLES PARTY” is there?
Lord Pearson has tabled a Parliamentary Question demanding to know whether Nick Clegg is entitled to an EU Pension. I agree with this query, but go further, to demand to know how many and who these polititions are that receive EU Pensions.
If any politition is in recept of or promise of an EU Pension, they quite obviousley have a conflict of interests.
Voters have the right to know if there intended MP had the EU interests at heart, [ viz EU Pensions] if this be the case, we eurosceptics are not truely being represented. This I find intolerable, MP’s should be made to declare their allegiance.